Alain
Would you please post something more about “all the quirks”?
That could be very useful.
Barry
I don’t think there is any position feedback. Current position is determined by the camera finding fiducials, then counting motor steps for the duration of that build.
One board had a terrible time with registration for some reason. I went back to KiCad and made a new Position file and then went through the Neoden setup again. Then it all worked better. No clue what went wrong.
If is VERY important that you never change the 1st component after doing the setup as that step is the basis of the KiCad [x,y] to machine position [x,y] determination. That calculation happens once at setup. If it is wrong, then I suggest starting over with a new KiCad .pos file.
I am not doing production quantities, so I have the speed set to 30% and for fine pitch devices (installed last), I use 10%. This works well for TSSOP pitch devices.
We are looking NoeDen 4 for our small startup. However, it is tough to go with a Chinese or USA supplier. In the beginner, we were thinking to get it from a Chinese seller but now, we consider to make an order from here https://neodenusa.com/. Though USA company is giving a little bit high quote but they are also hiding no charges.
Where are you located?
Keep in mind that the Neoden USA company may or may not necessarily be the same people as the actual Neoden manufacturer. They could instead be a distributor with a license to use the name in order to be the preferred distribution channel for the US.
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i’ve bought two pnps and an oven directly from neoden china, haven’t had any issues with them.
I haven’t bought from the usa side, they seem fine though. higher quote might be the american tariffs included
haven t heard of any other resellers
the americans are not the same as neoden, its a couple of guys who had another business and became an official distributor.
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We would prefer California and Florida shipments. If they are not the main manufacturers then where should I look the actual Neoden?
I am not saying that China stuff has any issue but due to trade issues, I want to avoid the shipments from China. However, any European manufacturer would be preferred especially US ones.
Be careful there. Tariffs are imposed based on the country of origin. If you buy it from a US seller, but the product was made in China, you may end up paying even more, as the same tariff would be charged as you import into Europe.
i’m not following what you’re asking sorry, are you looking to buy a neoden from a european or usa supplier instead of buying directly from neoden in china, or are you looking for a different brand that is not made in china?
if you email neoden they’ll help you with their suppliers, but i only know of the neoden china and neodenusa.com .
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Email is helpful. Thanks for your cooperation.
they just announced a new pnp the s1 as well, isn’t out yet.
To be really honest, I kind of wish I’d not bought a PnP as the world has changed. The JLC assembly service is good, but their limited number of parts (they claim 30k) is a limiting factor. I design some RF things and there are lots of parts I want to use and they don’t offer (not a surprise).
The biggest challenge for me now, using the PnP, is solder paste. I buy a stainless stencil and those work pretty well, but a TQFP48 is a real PITA to put down. Stencil alignment is slightly painful, getting paste evenly through all the tiny holes is a REAL challenge, without making a mess or sliding the stencil. The Neoden will place the part but not quite as accurately as I’d like. The paste is so minimal, that the part doesn’t adhere well and if you try to nudge it into place, it smears the paste. I end up toasting the board and have to do hand cleanup or pull the part and redo by hand. A real pain.
There is a Minicircuits part in a 5mm leadless package. I hand apply a blob of paste and try to spread it around. Then I set the part and toast. There are usually sholder shorts on the edges that I have to clean up.
Maybe I’m too old for this. I don’t have the shakes, but the pins are really small and everything has to be JUST RIGHT for first time success.
@iabarry if you find stenciling hard to get right, you really should try getting some boards from Eurocircuits, Their EZ Stencil system has never failed me and it’s so easy to use. There’s no extra cost to the boards using it. You just place the pins and drop the stencil on. Perfect alignment on first try even for VQFN and 0201. (I’ll test 01005’s next week). Here’s a vid that shows how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBWtqZro_fg
Also - if you have low yield in your production, check out Amp Hour episode #458. The advice that Ken Burns offers on solder paste has done wonders for me!
Thanks for the link.
I have a similar fixture. The example video has relatively large components which are not usually a problem. It is the very small pads of ICs where I struggle.
@jensa i don’t suppose you know a usa distributor of ez/ec for eurocirucits they won’t ship to usa. i’d like to get the ec stencil pad consumable.
@iabarry - do you tension your stencil when pasting? I don’t use fancy fixtures – I just tape down scrap boards on the bench and use lots of painters tape to mount everything down. The stencil is taped down on one edge, then tensioned flat and taped at least on the other side, and sometimes all around. I use the binocular microscope to ensure alignment before pasting.
I have also used framed stencils, but they are rather bulky so I normally don’t bothers, as I’m usually only doing onesies by hand.
@charliex - I got some boards from them about two month ago (I am in California). Really happy with the quality of their work. Ordering process is a bit more involved compared to quick-turn proto places, but you get exactly what you ordered.
@ToyBuilder yeah i tried to order last night and it said they don’t deliver to my area, which is also California. might be different for consumables, or temporary with covid.
If you already have a larger stencil printer like this style:
It uses little pegs through the PCB to hold the PCB. If you make those holes go through the stencil as well you basically get the same easy alignment, it seems to work quite well in practice.
Otherwise for one-off I’m normally doing like @ToyBuilder says with just tape, and works pretty well for most stuff I deal with.
i dig the frameless styles since cheaper shiping, the one colin is pretty decent, the other cheap versions are a i feel a waste of money, they’re cobbled together from hardware store parts and so hard to be accurate the tape method is miles better.
i’ve use a piece of tool plate with cnc’d holes and then some lathed out pins to register, then i can transfer it to the pnp as well.